So what can we expect to hear on the new album?
The good thing about this album is that it’s a lot like one of my first three albums. Lately, a lot of the albums I’ve been doing have had a different player on every song and this one has pretty much the same group on every song. It’s much more of a jazz-fusion thing, more a jazz rock album. It’s a little heavier and more energetic.
A lot of it has to do with the band I’m using – they’re young guys and I wrote a lot of the music to frame what they do. It really sounds good and has a definite band sound. It has electric music and acoustic music and it’s a really fun album. We’re just putting the finishing touches on it now and the album’s coming out at the end of the summer. I believe it’s a September release.
I just saw the ‘Night School’ DVD (which has a gig that Stanley played with an awesome list of guest musicians) at the Musicians Institute and was wondering – what prompted you to release that particular show?
It’s very simple – it was just to raise money for kids to go to college. That was the purpose of the concert and that’s the purpose of the release. A lot of musicians talk very fondly of the late 60’s / early 70’s as a great time for Jazz artists and bands. Do you think it’s harder these days for musicians to develop as artists and establish themselves?
These days? I really don’t know so much about these days but I know that the tradition of the Jazz musician is that if you put your mind to playing your instrument well within the Jazz field, there has always been an audience and there always will be an audience for you. There are thousands and thousands of Jazz concerts all over the world for you to play. That’s the kind of question that you could ask pretty much about any genre.
I would think it’s probably harder to sustain yourself as a rock musician, because there’s more of them. There’s more people wanting to do rock and roll and definitely more people wanting to do hip hop today. In the US, pretty much every young kid at some point fantasises trying to be like 50 cent or something but that ain’t gonna happen. It’s just mathematics, everyone cannot have a record contract.
I think because Jazz music is a little more unique, if you get in there and you’re serious about it and you really excel, you’ll have a career. Of course, the stakes are higher in pop and hip hop if you’re there and you’re in the top 20 or 30 guys you’re gonna make far more money than any of the other acts, including even rock acts. What really sells today is kind of hip-hop/pop stuff, but there’s so few acts – there’s maybe just a couple of handfuls of people that sell a lot of records. You’re in your 20’s – I’m sure you probably know 10-15 guys that aspire to be hip hop artists, but ask yourself – how are they doing?
Jazz is a unique and very distinctive sort of genre to get into and it has a long, long tradition and for people that get into it, it’s almost like joining a little club. Some people accuse it of being an elitist club and maybe it is, but it’s a thing that not everybody can get into and it’s not something that’s for everybody. You have to really get into it, study your instrument, blah, blah, blah, pay your dues, play with whoever you’re supposed to play with.
I had the luxury of coming up in the late 60’s, early 70’s where the New York scene was really serious. Miles Davis was still living there, all the guys were living there. I was able to see Thelonious Monk playing a in a little club – it was pretty vibrant, the whole Jazz scene. I was lucky, because I was younger and I had other influences, the guys who I played with, Chick Corea, Al Di Meola and quite a few others, we had other music to fuse with Jazz. So our audience was a broader audience, and that kinda changed what Jazz was.
Do you feel that reality shows like Pop Idol and American Idol are starting to devalue the role of the musician – like it’s making kids aspire to be famous, rather than to play music well?
I think what these shows have done, in my opinion, is they’ve taken away the mystique of being an artist and because of these shows there’s really nothing sacred in music anymore. Whether that’s good or bad remains to be seen. It’ll take another 10 or 20 years to see, but I can tell you the effect of it. When I was growing up, if you turned on the TV set and you saw someone that played an instrument, it was rare. Maybe once every three or four months you would see a musician. I remember when the Beatles came on the Ed Sullivan show, I think everybody in the United States tuned in and the same when the Rolling Stones came. I think there was one show called the Steve Allen Show that had Miles Davis on there and you’d see these real characters and you’d think – what are they about? What is this guy really like?
They have shows in America, I’m sure in England too, you know what cars these artists drive, you know what their houses look like. We have ‘Cribs’ on MTV here where they show you inside these peoples houses, and some of their houses are terrible too. You could see the guy’s just had some money and bought some shit and would have 50,000 Rolls Royces outside. You know everything down to the colour of somebody’s underwear and what that does, is it takes all of the mystery away.
Some people might say, on the other hand it makes it more real, because with that, along with technology now, almost anybody can make an album. If you read the manuals and you understand the equipment, it can sound pretty competitive. The musical content of it.. Well, that’s another story. I’m sure most music students these days want to go on these shows and become famous and to be quite honest, the idea of being famous is pretty much what’s fashionable now. You can get pissed off about it, but you can’t change it – it’s just the way society is.
Do you see things changing any time soon? Do you feel there’s anything that musicians and artists can do to try and change the situation?
The biggest news here last week was the Iraq war as usual and then Paris Hilton going to jail. And I don’t even know what she ever did. All I know is that she’s a daughter and an heiress to the Hilton family, but did she ever make a record? Did she ever paint a picture? Did she ever write a book? I don’t know. I’ve never seen anything and nobody else has, but she’s famous as hell and everybody in America knows who she is. All you can do – for somebody like me, who’s 55 – I’m old but not that old, I’ve seen a few things in my life. For me, how I react to that is to not react. I just keep doing what I do and I watch the tide change. This will wear out, because it can’t get any worse, and believe it or not, there are a lot of young people who are aware that the whole famous for nothing, ‘famous for being famous’ thing is bullshit but you have a lot of people, usually people that really don’t have much of an idea about art and what it takes to be an artist, they look at, for instance our American Idol show and they really thing that this is where it’s at, like these are the greatest singers in the world.
Quite frankly, I have never heard one singer on American Idol that was really distinctive. They’re good singers, but are they real true singers ? Like a Stevie Wonder, Chaka Khan, Freddie Mercury, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald – you know, someone that’s real serious? – No. They’re just good singers, they sing in church or their local choir and these people have voices. But to be a serious artist? That’s the one thing that bugs me, more than anything – I don’t hear too many people talk about it, but the word artist gets really thrown around. Just because someone has a craft that involves music, like I’m playing a piano so therefore I am an artist. I’m holding a guitar, so I’m an artist.
I have a different way of looking at it – I think you learn your craft and to really become a great artist, or even a good artist, it takes a little bit more than just playing your instrument. You gotta have good songs and hopefully you write the songs or if you can’t write the songs then your interpretation, like a Frank Sinatra – he didn’t write shit. But the way he took other people’s songs and interpreted them, you’d think he did write them. I have a little beef with that, but in the mainstream they’re kind of eccentric views, so I don’t really blow my horn too high on that. But I watch it all, I think it’s hilarious – great entertainment.
I suppose the big problem we have now if the issue of longevity. We listen to ‘classic’ albums from the 60s and 70s, but in 40 years time do you think anyone will be listening to albums from this era as ‘classics’ or still harking back to the ‘glory days’?
I love it when I see a 14 year old kid walking around with a Led Zeppelin record in his hand. I was never a huge Led Zeppelin fan but I sure know why he’s got a Led Zeppelin record in his hand, because these guys created a sound – they are the source, they were innovative. It’s a really funny thing, but I can’t blame the kids and the young people out there who are filling in the slots and saying ‘Hey I’m an artist’ or whatever or a guy who comes out and he makes one record and you never hear of him again, which is probably the majority of them, a lot of that has to do with the business too.
You see the business, with the laywers and the record executives, in a lot of ways they’re more responsible for this kind of stuff than even the kids. Those guys who go on American Idol, they want a couple of things, they want to do something for themselves, they want to distinguish themselves, they want to make some money, to have some fame and there’s nothing wrong with having those goals in your life, they’re fine things to have.
Unfortunately, what I think has happened is the business has pimped the whole idea of being an artist, the whole tradition of being an artist – this person that, maybe he is a little snooty but he’s separated from normal society because this guy sacrificed, bled 10 years, practicing a piano and so the guy has distinguished himself and got to the point where he goes to Carnegie hall. He plays Beethoven like nobody and people sit there, and when he’s done, he bows his head and walks off the stage. We like that, as human beings.
Now to go to Carnegie Hall to hear one of those guys from American Idol sing an Elton John song, not as good as Elton and you see people leaving there and they think it’s great, it’s kinda weird. The lawyers and the execs are into what I call ‘hit and run’ business. You get a young person that sound like whatever, they make a record. I hear that these days 3 records is probably the length of the average young person that makes an album (if they’re lucky – DM) Yeah – if they’re lucky – if not, you make a record, maybe your second will be bigger and the third one will go away or the first one will be big, second one will be small, they won’t even get a third one because it costs so much to promote these people. It’s real business that they’re doing. Before, when I was younger it was less business in the music industry, it was more magic. You made a record, people threw some money out there, radio wasn’t controlled by conglomerates. Back in the 60s and 70, every different station had it’s own programme director and these guys had their own way of programming and it was really fun. You’d put out a record and you didn’t know what was gonna happen, but now it’s so orchestrated and so organised.
One theme that seems to run through a lot of my conversations with musicians is the issue of personal style, of the development of an individual voice. Lots of young musicians use books and dvds to learn things but don’t seem to follow it on – to explore themselves as a player.
I remember a great saxophonist who played for Miles named Wayne Shorter – he said something to me that was so profound and even Miles said it a little bit, one time I was over at his place. He said ‘Sometimes with some people it takes a long time for them to find themselves.’ He was basically saying that it has nothing to do with the music. Wayne Shorter said that in order to really play good and be yourself you have to – he was a weird guy, but Wayne said ‘You have to go to the store and buy milk for your grandmother.’ I didn’t know what the hell was talking about, but I realised later from talking to him, all the musicians that I’ve known in all genres of music, I don’t care what it is, that person with a really distinctive style is usually a person that has a little more courage than the next guy. To sound different from everyone that’s around you and decide that every time I play the guitar I’m gonna stand on my head and I’m only gonna use three strings and I’m gonna tune them like this, you have to have a little courage to do that.
One of my favourite rock and roll guitar players is a guy from England – Jeff Beck and he’s just like that. Really he’s a car mechanic who just happens to play the guitar. When he’s home, he loves to work on his roadsters, but when he picks up the guitar he has his own way of playing. From talking to him all these years he told me about all the experiences of when Jimi Hendrix came over there and how shocking it was for everybody and Eric Clapton and the guitar player from The Who they were like ‘who the hell is this guy?? It’s killin! – Lets kill his ass quick!’
What I got from it is that some guys just have that little bit more courage. When you’re a kid and you’re in an environment with 20 / 30 other people that are playing the same instrument, it’s so easy to be self-conscious, it’s so easy, based on your personality to be the kind of guy that says ‘Man I wonder if I’m good’ and then out of those 20 kids there’s always gonna be somebody who’s gonna emerge, that’s gonna be that crazy motherfucker, that’s just gonna do it and it’s either gonna be great or it’s gonna be terrible.
That guys either gonna be obnoxious and everybody’s gonna hate him or it’s gonna be that guy who’s what I call the ‘silent courage’ type. The guy that’s just back there and he plays the way he plays and he gets respect because he’s consistent, consistently feeling the way he’s gonna feel. Putting that in musical terms is kinda difficult, like what lick or whatever.
So can you define what makes a great player?
The greater players, for me, you always get a feeling when you meet them, even though it’s not put in words, you know why they’re playing. When you stand next to someone like BB King and he plays a guitar lick you can feel the pain and the joy. You know exactly what he’s leaning on that makes him play the way he plays. He’s not thinking about a lick – it’s the pain and how he grew up, whatever hard times he had and you really feel it when you stand next to him. Stand next to George Benson, the same thing, Jeff Beck, the same thing. You really feel this energy that’s not put in words. I think it’s that guy’s essence and then the notes that you pick, I believe they just fall into place.
The cool thing about being a student is that you get all this ammunition, like a great boxer or a martial artist, you have all these tools, but you’re gonna kill yourself if you sit around and say ‘Okay I can do 1000 things’, so you gotta pick out which of those 1000 things are really you. The joke is, none of them are you! None of them are any of ours, they’re just a collection of things that we’ve all done and not done and altered and put them all together. If your heart is huge and you’re able to connect into why you’re doing what you’re doing emotionally, it doesn’t even necessarily have to be in words, but you feel it, then the beautiful thing about music and I can really honestly say I know this to be true is that the right stuff for you is gonna come out. It’s just remaining true to yourself and not messing around with somebody else’s head or letting somebody else get in your head.
It’s tough though, cause there’s a lot of people out there trying to do it. There’s a lot of impostors out there, there’s so many guys out there who play bass. Some of them should be doing it, some of them shouldn’t. It’s a lotta noise, as my wife would say, there’s a lotta noise out there. The key is to be able to manoeuvre your way through it.
As a developing player, did you have a mentor or a musician who you could pick out that had a profound effect on your path?
I was very fortunate at a young age I met Charlie Mingus. Charlie could have been a revolutionary in South America, he could have been an Arab fighter, he could have been a guy in Japan piloting a plane into a boat – he was like an arrow, this guy. I was fascinated more by his energy than by even what he played on the bass. He was so serious about what he was doing, it was like life or death.
I wasn’t a guy that studied Charlie Mingus’ music, I think I only know one or two if his songs but I put him down as probably one of my biggest influences, just because of his attitude. He was a true bass revolutionary. His whole thing with me was: you’re a bass player and bass players in the old days there was a certain significance attached to us. You stand at the back.
I remember it as clear as a bell when I was 13, seeing the Rolling Stones on TV, looking at Bill Wyman, leaning over to my sister and saying ‘Damn! He doesn’t look too happy….’ He always looked miserable, like he didn’t want to be there. He was there standing there in the back and he might have been the smartest guy in the band, one never knows. But I learned later from Charlie Mingus that sometimes the guys that appears to have the least – maybe the singer up front there with his shirt open, getting all the glory, he may not be the guy that’s hooking that shit up so it looks good. It might be that little keyboard player with the nerdy glasses or that little bass player over on the side, looking like he doesn’t have nothing. When he mentioned that to me, he said ‘What you know and what you do – be proud of it, be strong with it. Stanley, you write good, have your own bands, do your own thing.’ So that’s what I did and I did it at a time when there was maybe a handful of bass players with record contracts. I went and got a contract and it was great, I owe a lot to him. I don’t think I even have one of his records, I just knew a few of his songs. I really believe that musicians who are u
nique – 60 / 70 percent of it is mind. It’s what you have upstairs and what you’re willing to do and sacrifice for it.
What do you look for in the musicians that you play with?
I know Miles Davis used to like this – it’s like a reverse snootyness, I just love playing with young musicians, I don’t know why. I like real energetic guys that are on stage. Fortunately I’m in good shape for my age and it’s just an energy thing. It’s not that I don’t like playing with older guys –with guys my age, the music is always a bit more refined, regardless of the style. You can tell the guys have done it hundreds of times but there’s something unpredictable about young guys. I love young drummers who are outta control. There’s something nice about having a guy who’s like a wild animal on the drums – you don’t what the hell’s gonna happen next. You don’t even know if he’s gonna keep time and I love that – it’s really exciting to me. Also, it gives me an opportunity to show them something and I watch them get better as the months go by, it’s really nice.
At this stage in your career as a writer and performer, what kind of things are you looking for to challenge you?
The biggest challenge I have musically is putting a solo bass album together
I know a few guys have attempted it before – it’s difficult, 60 minutes of music. Right now, I can give you a good 35 minutes of bass solo and I think it’s okay but after that.. I love the bass, it’s a fine instrument but it’s not a piano, it’s not a guitar, there are physical limitations. So I’ve been working on this album and I think I’m gonna come up with an hour of music that you could listen to as if you’re listening to a Keith Jarrett solo piano album. A lot of it has to do with the sound, the energy, the placement of the songs, how it flows, so that’s the biggest musical challenge, I have now.
